The Extras
The Extras
The Vault is Open: A Looney Review of Collector's Vault V1 Disc 1
Animation historian Jerry Beck and George Feltenstein of the Warner Archive officially "open the vault" in this broad review of disc one of the recently released Looney Tunes Collector's Vault Volume 1. Our far-ranging discussion includes a history of the last 35 years of Looney Tunes restoration, debunking of some restoration myths, select reviews, and Jerry's shocking "cartoons in a porno theater" story. When Jerry and George talk animation, you know it's going to be fun, informative, and always full of a few surprises. Looney Tunes super-fans, this is one podcast you don't want to miss!
Purchase Links: Looney Tunes Collector's Vault Vol. 1
Also discussed: Looney Tunes Platinum Collection Vol. 1 (Blu-ray)
Looney Tunes Platinum Collection Vol. 2 (Blu-ray)
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Hello and welcome to the Extras. I'm Tim Millard, your host, and joining me is George Feltenstein of the Warner Archive and animation historian Jerry Beck, to review the recent release Looney Tunes Collector's Vault, volume 1 Blu-ray. Hi George, hi Jerry, hello, hello, hello. These are some of my favorite podcasts, george, and I enjoy all of them with you, but when we add Jerry and you two are talking animation, it's always fantastic. I learned so much and the fans really enjoyed it as well. So I know I've been looking forward to this and I think a lot of people are looking forward to hearing our review of this brand new Blu-ray. So what's been the feedback so far? I mean, it's only been out for a few days.
George Feltenstein:Well, happily, there was a plentiful amount of pre-orders and a plentiful amount of supply, so it was so refreshing for me to see people on social media showing their release that they had it in their hands on street date, which is what we always strive for. That doesn't always happen, but we're trying to eliminate a lot of those manufacturing and other delays that have been a problem. I think we're on a better track, and getting this out as early as it did was just proof of that.
Tim Millard:Yeah, I mean, I think I've seen a lot of posts, a lot of people very eager to dive in, and I'm sure that some people are doing it today and will be doing it this weekend, that some people are doing it today and will be doing it this weekend so that they can dive into this collector's vault. And I do want to just take one minute, before we get too far into our review, to remind people that if you haven't heard the previous podcast where we've talked about the collector's vault, those are available both in audio podcasts and on our YouTube channel, both in audio podcasts and on our YouTube channel. And the point of this Vault series, jerry, just to remind everybody, we have two discs.
Jerry Beck:Yeah, this Vault series is different from the Collector's Choice because disc one really follows the same pattern of what we were doing on the previous series. Collector's Choice, which is really deep dives into Warner Brothers cartoons that have never been on Blu-ray or DVD, restoring them. These are aimed at the collectors yes, everyone can enjoy them but we are definitely aiming more toward the people who are collecting every cartoon. I know I personally was doing that decades ago when I was researching the animation. I was trying to locate every cartoon I can see and we know people are doing that. Now the other disc. What makes the Vault series spectacular is that we have a second disc. We have double. The cartoons and the second disc are great, great warner brothers cartoons, classic bugs, bunnies and tweeties and that that may have appeared on dvd, but this is their blu-ray debut. So if you're a collector, you know these are. You've got a double dose here, uh and uh for the collection, and we'll talk about how great they look.
Tim Millard:These are the cartoons, kind of as perfectly as we can have them yeah, and I I mentioned this on a previous podcast but the price point is basically the same as the old collector's vault, depending on where you go to purchase them. And this time, though, you get two discs, 50 cartoons for the price of what you were getting about 25 before, so it's a great value as well. But let's dive right in. I mean, my first reaction is fantastic. Of course, I said that about the previous four releases, but I love the fact that, as I said, you get two discs, so you get not only the kind of the more obscure ones on disc one that are definitely for collectors, but then you put on disc two and you've got so many of your favorites. But we'll hold off on talking about this, too, because disc one has three brand new restorations. I thought we'd start there with those because I thought they looked horrific, and we'll start with.
George Feltenstein:let's see of Fox and Hounds from 1940, that Tex.
Audio clip:Avery. Which way did they go? Which way did they go? Where did the dogs go? Which way did they go? Which way did they go? Where did the dogs go? Which way did they go?
Tim Millard:I was blown away by how good this looks and sounds, and it's a terrific cartoon.
Jerry Beck:Yeah, it's sort of in that period when Avery and the others were exploring the chase cartoon, avery was developing that kind of wise guy persona. You could see that this is definitely, you know, almost a companion to things like Wild Hair.
Jerry Beck:You know, there's that wise guy Fox. It's an extremely interesting cartoon in that there's to me in the very beginning it's got a lot of dark. It takes place in the early morning. You don't get that on the previous any showings of it. In the past, when we were kids, it was a very dark looking cartoon. Now you can see everything. It's really funny. Avery, I believe, is the voice of Willoughby, the dog in it which is pretty crazy.
Jerry Beck:Be the dog in it, you know which is pretty crazy. And um, uh, you know, george, maybe you could say something about the fact. Why wouldn't a cartoon have been restored like like that one earlier? And there's reasons for that. It's not just that we've ignored it. There's, there's legitimate reasons why certain cartoons were at the end of the line.
George Feltenstein:Well, you know, it's where they fall in the chronology that goes back, really, I would say, to the 1980s, because prior to that you had a group of cartoons that were licensed to network television. They used 35 millimeter prints for the Bugs Bunny show, the Bugs Bunny Roadrunner Hour, the Dappy Duck show, the Porky Pig show. You know there started to be a lot of fractured network Saturday morning shows but starting with the reruns of the Bugs Bunny show and whatnot, that was all 35 millimeter there were. To remind people that aren't aware and I think most people that are watching slash, listening to this, are aware it wasn't until Time Warner's purchase of Turner Broadcasting in 1996 that the entire Warner Library was reunited, because all cartoons made before August 31st 1948, were in other hands due to the sale of the library by the Warner Brothers in 1956. It took 40 years for us to get everything put back together and the black and white Looney Tunes were sold to another company even before that. That ended up in the Warner lair, so to speak. So, in order to have everything together, initially it was the impetus of home video that had people taking a look and saying, well, what do we have now on the Warner side of things, basically the post 50, if you will.
George Feltenstein:Uh, there was a concerted effort of maintaining 35 millimeter materials. On the other side it was primarily under the care of United Artists, or ownership of United Artists, from 1958 when they bought Associated Artists Productions, until 1981 when MGM bought United Artist Corporation. During the UA period. All they really cared about was a 16 millimeter picket track. That's all they really cared about the 35 millimeter materials. The negative materials were stored properly in a nitrate archive, but it was all about 16 millimeter.
George Feltenstein:Syndication and home video started that. There were some really awful no offense meant to anyone. Before I got to MJMUA home video, there were these video for kids clamshell releases that were taken off 16 millimeter prints. You know the daffy duck cartoon film festival featuring all my aching back or that's a big title I'm making up, but uh, when you have people that don't know of these American animated classic films and think it's kid stuff, this is what happens.
George Feltenstein:So that's how things were to Kirk Krikorian and the Warner Library was put under MGM, as were certain rights to the RKO Library that became Turner Entertainment Co because they sold the MGM name. That's why Amazon has it and the MGM Lion logo. So MGM Entertainment Company had to become Turner Entertainment Company, but within the first year of ownership, turner Broadcasting went to all the pre-48 cartoons and created off 35 millimeter release prints, mostly Technicolor, uh, mostly nitrate, uh. They created one inch analog video masters. Now you look at them. Now they're soft, uh, they're dirty, they're. They're not great, but when we saw them in 1987 and 888 jerry and I oh was like oh my God, we're seeing these in 35mm.
Jerry Beck:Oh my God it was. I got to digress, I got to not digress, but I got to interrupt it with my own recollections. I love listening to this part of the history of it, the I used to, as, even as a kid, and as I was getting more and more into the cartoons. I think you might've done this too, george. I don't think we ever mentioned it, but I used to think of the pre-48s and the ones they ran on Channel 5.
George Feltenstein:Who had rights to both packages.
Jerry Beck:I call those the local versions and whatever was run on CBS Saturday morning or in TV specials that they were doing in the 70s where they were taking from 35. And I was like I used to call it in my head, cbs level, cbs network level of these. And it wasn't until much, much later when I got involved with you and the MGM cartoons and we started seeing these 35-millimeter transfers and George remembers I went crazy. I went crazy right away on the 35s Right, because we had never seen Wabbitwabble look so good and even though it looks like crap to us today from what we're doing, it was a revelation to see the next level of it getting closer to what it must have been like. And we're living in another world now with some of the ones I've seen.
Jerry Beck:I've been watching on this rewatching now, where I just only can remember the dark dingy 16 millimeter version, you know, and here it looks brand new, you know, faded pink. Yeah, I got. I got an interesting theory. Maybe you have a little bit of cartoon research here for you, george. I've been showing, as you know I'll leave some names out, but I do some local and legal public screenings of cartoons at a local theater here. I think you know what I mean, and if you don't, I'll tell you. Of course, the New Beverly here. I think you know what I mean and if you don't, I'll tell you. The new Beverly.
Jerry Beck:And they use a particular collection of old 35 millimeter prints that they've acquired and they legally are allowed to show. And I only see these prints when they run them. I help curate what they're going to show and then I see them and throughout the last couple of years I saw something very interesting I hadn't seen before and I hadn't figured out before They've been running what are British releases of pre-48 Warner Brothers cartoons. I say that because once in a while it'll say on their list they've got a 35 millimeter of Bugs Bunny Gets the Boyd or something like that, and I'm like they do so. I put it on the list, they run it and it has that British black and white title card that says they got censored yeah.
Jerry Beck:And then the cartoon comes on and it's, it's. It looks pretty good. It's, it's. It's a clearly AAP slash United artists In fact. In fact, it's a clearly AAP slash United Artists. In fact, one or two of the prints have a United Artists that rectangular old logo that they rarely use the Great Transamerica logo.
George Feltenstein:yeah.
Jerry Beck:Yeah, and they'll start off with that and it'll dissolve into the Mary Mill. It's really cool. But here's the thing I find really interesting. Really cool. But here's the thing I find really interesting those prints all have that end title that we never could understand. That says the End. It says Mary Melody's the End. You know, we've seen that in syndication. I now believe that I always wondered about that. Why didn't say that to all folks? Maybe it was a reissue thing, maybe it was a blue ribbon thing, maybe it was. But I'm now beginning to think that the end title was created for England. I'm sorry if I'm digressing from our means.
George Feltenstein:No, it's very possible.
Jerry Beck:I think that's where they come from. I think that's what they did them for.
George Feltenstein:That's all folks was maybe too colloquial for other countries, Maybe too colloquial for you know other countries On the again, on the Turner side, I want to debunk some stuff that you know, because people on the Internet have all sorts of theories. Ninety eight percent of them are completely inaccurate and it just spins nonsense. Yeah, uh, people keep talking about the turner dubbed version.
Jerry Beck:yeah, that's the famous one what are the?
George Feltenstein:what was that? What? What that was. A year before time, warner bought turner broadcasting, turner started to prepare their Looney Tunes and Merry Melodies that they did own for more global distribution. They created new audio tracks, so you'd see this one copyright notice dubbed version 1995, and this didn't really apply to everything, everything, but they created a one-size-fits-all thing that just spun things really out of you know, and the fans all think that the cartoon must have some unusual dubbing in it or something that's you know.
Jerry Beck:Know, it's not the cartoon.
George Feltenstein:It's not applicable outside of the United States, but what they did was they took those one inch analog transfers off the prints and they did a conversion to D2 tapes. So the bottom line is on the pre-48 material that was owned by AAP, ua, mgmua, then TEC, Turner Entertainment Company, which is still a technical division of Warner Brothers Entertainment, the TEC part of the library never got proper 35 millimeter preservation and work. They did make interpositives off of internegatives this is horrible to think about Off those prints and, uh, the people that did that were well-meaning, uh, but not enlightened, and so a lot of those fourth generation elements were all that they could work with until the best thing that happened was the reunification of the library and the work that has been going on at Warner Brothers for 28 years to create proper photochemical preservation as well as 4k digital scans. That we're doing, all the stuff that's been happening. But it's been an evolutionary process and there's a lot of focus on that. What you're seeing on the looney tunes collectors vault is a combination of cartoons that have either been mastered some of the later ones that are maybe masters from 10 years ago or 12 years ago that were 1080p in HD, but they're not off the original negatives. Those are more found on the second disc. But what we did was the WB mastering team went through, did color correction, did color film element damage cleanup.
George Feltenstein:I really want to make this very, very clear. Some people have actually condemned us for leaving cell dust and people don't realize that's the way it was when it came out and we don't want to take the road that certain other companies have taken where they try to make them look like they were made yesterday and that there were no cells involved that had cell scratches and cell dirt. We're trying to preserve the original theatrical presentation. So that's kind of squishing 35 years of post-mid-1980s restoration efforts and it's just as technology has evolved. We've gotten from one-inch analog tapes to digital D2 tapes and digital D1 tapes and then finally the remastering in Tane ADP, but coming from secondary elements, and then later on people became much more aware that we needed to protect the original successor exposure negatives where they exist.
George Feltenstein:Thankfully they exist on almost everything and safety separations were made of those successive exposure negatives for protection on film, and now digital scanning is being done as well in 4k. So if you look at a day at the zoo for that is a result of going back to the original successive exposure negatives, scanning at 4K, getting rid of all film damage, using Technicolor prints as a color reference, and we have these beautiful new masters and the audio is restored as well. So on the older masters that you find on disc two, they were gone through and film damage was removed to the best that it could be done and they were all given additional color correction tweaks and we also did some audio restoration on many of them so that this 50 cartoon collection could really be welcomed by the fans and the enthusiasts, and Jerry and I I think we qualify as fans and enthusiasts- I think so, I think so.
Jerry Beck:I want to mention another fan thing, but just to quickly. Once in a while especially, I've heard this more, 10, 15 years ago, if there's been some, you know a cartoon that's been remastered and I don't even know anymore what the complaints were then, but they would have a complaint about some aspect of a cartoon and I would always remind people that this cartoon was restored for this video, for this project. The masters, the negatives, you know the raw materials of the cartoon. Nothing was changed and tweaked or ruined. They think that we again I'm talking about 15, 20 years ago that we might have ruined the cartoon. That's it. You guys ruined it. It was that way and and the thing is, um, they don't understand that sometimes. That don't worry if you do that. If something is amiss which again I have nothing here to complain about we didn't ruin the cartoon. All the material is there, it all can be redone, supposedly. It's just something I like to impart, because I've heard this complaint Actually, now that I think about it, I've heard it more for other studios where they will dub in a new music to cover a music cue, you know what I mean, something like that and they'll think that's it, they ruined it and I'm like I think it's important people know that there are levels to these things, that there are levels to these things.
Jerry Beck:We're trying to present them, as George says, the best way, the way it was originally, we hope presented. The way it may have looked at that first answer print screening at the studio, which I think is the way they look to me. I have never seen some of these cartoons look as good as they do here. It's a whole other experience. I'm in my salesman mode right now, but it is another experience to see these proper.
George Feltenstein:You know it's and it was uh when we got the test discs in. I'd say this about two months, six weeks ago, jerry came to my office studio. We went through, and it's one of the things I live for is his oral expression of excitement when he sees how they look and how beautiful they look, and the oh wow's come from both of us. The oh wows come from both of us.
George Feltenstein:We're very proud of this release and hoping to improve upon it for the next one, because we have a lot of interesting ideas and we certainly know that the list of great cartoons that still await their high def debut is very hefty, still await their high def debut is very hefty, and I'm also hopeful that certain cartoons that have been on the border, which showed up on DVD but have kind of taken a backseat for a while. I'm always fighting frankly, but I'm fighting the good fight to let people maybe reevaluate what we can make available and I'm hoping we can broaden that availability. That's about all I can say, because it's a hope and a prayer, not a reality. But I'm always in there fighting for you folks. So, because I'm one of the folks, and so is Jerry, and so are you Tim.
Tim Millard:Yeah, well, I did want to talk about some of the actual cartoons. Yes, on disc one so far. I mean, we talked about two of the restored totally restored for this version cartoons of Fox and Hounds from 1940, tex Avery, and then that's also A Day at the Zoo is also an Avery, and I didn't say anything about A Day at the Zoo. But again, amazing restoration and really a lot of fun. And this one has the voiceover but it's got so many punchlines and gags in it.
Jerry Beck:Yeah, I think I mentioned this last time that it's been completely forgotten. It's become part of the cliche of classic cartoons. But Avery invented that narration idea. Right, invented that narration idea. Uh, you know a narrator. It obviously took it from travel logs and sports reels that they used to have, but it was innovative, very innovative, so much so it was mentioned a lot in the trades.
Jerry Beck:In fact, when avery moved from warners to mgm, they not only mentioned uh maybe not completely accurately creator of Bunny, because we know there's no one creator of Bugs Bunny, there were several, but Avery was certainly very important, but they mentioned creator of Bugs Bunny and I forgot how they worded it but the narrator. They mentioned the narrator cartoons because that was unique at that time and I think the first one was nominated for an Academy Award, and so they continued that idea. When anything worked really well, they would continue it. And what's great is, unlike some lesser studios, they didn't just repeat the ideas over and over again. The sequel kind of cartoons to that are hilarious and stand on their own Day at the Zoo is one of those.
Tim Millard:Well, the third totally restored one here that I know everybody was really looking forward to seeing and again looks terrific the 1949 Each Dawn I Crow, mm-hmm. I love that cartoon. This is a dark story, but I totally really enjoyed this cartoon.
Jerry Beck:It's a very strange cartoon, I will admit I do have on my blog Cartoon Research. I think I've done my. I have to admit I've done a list. I do like my favorite Bugs Bunnies, my favorite cartoons. At one point I did my least favorite cartoons, my favorite cartoons. At one point I did my least favorite cartoons and I have to say that that was one of the ones that I've always had lower on my list because it was so odd.
Jerry Beck:It's about killing this rooster and it's got this strange narration I never understood and I just it's just for me. I had a problem with it. Now it said as I have with many, many of the other cartoons that we've talked about on this show. I remember even a Gay Paris in particular. These were things I wasn't crazy about, but when I saw the restored versions I'm like, okay, I get it All right. I'm like, okay, I get it All right, I like this. Also, I've learned that that cartoon was a kind of a parody of a very famous radio show, the Whistler, that had that kind of spoken narration thing. At the beginning I didn't know that. I've known it now. Now I'm listening to the Whistler on SiriusXM. But yeah, it's very good, it's a great feeling from a primo period period, gentlemen, anything you want to say about it I think it's terrific and how much better it looks now restored.
George Feltenstein:uh, we had put it as an extra on the movie each dawn I die, which obviously you know the tie in there is obvious, um, but it looked awful.
George Feltenstein:But that's all we had was standard definition from the Turner era and we still have so many that need to get that upgrade and that's the purpose of this series.
George Feltenstein:We want to continue making them available and by having 25 and 25, continue making them available and by having 25 and 25, we're getting you know 50 cartoons for basically 50 cents a cartoon, which is a lot Brothers cartoon fan, because so much is now available. I do want to mention that they finally listened to me and put the platinum collections back in print, and I think the community is very excited about that and people I work with are now learning of the potential that is held within these animated masterpieces, and even the ones that aren't masterpieces are still impressive and they need to be recognized and treated with the same care and reverence as any other classic in the library. That's live action and feature length. These are great american classic films and we need to protect them and make them available to the public well, I did have one comment uh about each don I crow, and that is that I had to.
Tim Millard:I'm watching it and it looks so good that I had to double check, uh, when it was released, because I'm like this must be a 60s, this must be a 60s cartoon because, um, but no, it's, it's from 1949, but it looks like it was, uh, made much later and, yeah, it's fantastic. And I'm glad to hear you changing your opinion on it a little bit because, coming at it without all the history, see, I come at these not knowing how poorly they looked, necessarily because I just saw them on TV. You know, I haven't been collecting them or seeing them, but of course they look better than my recollection on TV, but I don't sit there and minutiae them or remember how poorly they looked, and so when I see them I'm just like, well, beautiful.
Jerry Beck:It is, you know, when we were kids and we were watching them on TV from 16 and then collecting film prints in eight millimeter or maybe 16 millimeter and they're fading and they're duping, but you know, we didn't think. I didn't never thought back then like about how, what kind of bad print is this? You know, the only clue was what I said before, where we would see the what I call better, cleaner versions of, you know, of other cartoons with Bugs Bunny, on the CBS, you know, saturday morning, or on primetime. That was the only differential back in those days. It wasn't until much later when George and I got into the business and then we could see, from circumstances of being in the business you know, what a 35-millimeter print of a cartoon looks like.
Jerry Beck:I've got a strange story that relates to a cartoon that's on this disc and it's a little strange. I'm gonna keep it as clean as I can. I worked for united artists in new york and they were, as george knows, uh, at 729 7th avenue on in times square, right it was. It was between 48th and 49th Street.
George Feltenstein:And we were surrounded by Right across the street from Popeye's Fried Chicken.
Jerry Beck:Right, and it was the Metropole Cafe. A topless place was next door. There were porno theaters all around the building where I had to go into work. It was sleazy. This is back in the 70s and 80s, before really home video really, really really took off. It was like the beginning of it really, and and people you know it was cost too much money to even have a. I couldn't even afford a tape player back then. And um, uh, I worked for united arts and I was involved with shorts and I was involved with booking shorts, uh, to you know, non-theatrically, in that time and one day, uh, I was able to find out internally how I found this out. I can't remember anymore, but I found out that a print of a cartoon was booked to the World 49th Street Theater, which was a porno theater right, that's where Deep Throat was for like three years Forever yeah, and I found out that they in fact I found out that they were playing like Pink Panther cartoons.
Jerry Beck:What they did was. I learned later that the theory is that the porno theaters would book cartoons and they did as chasers and so they wanted to get rid of riffraff. I mean, they never turned the lights on in those places. You know, people would like live there practically in these porno theaters, and so having a cartoon on wouldn't keep them there. Let's put it that way. They would get up and leave. Maybe you know time to go. That's a purpose. That happened back then.
George Feltenstein:That's a fascinating story. I did not know that. Now I fascinating story. I did not know that.
Jerry Beck:Now I learned that I couldn't believe it, and so one time I decided I was a bachelor and they're next door and I said well, it says here they're running a Pink Panther. I'm going to go over there and check it out. And I did. And they did run the pink panther, exactly as I said the movie would be over. They'd run some porno trailers. Then they ran the pink panther cartoon and I saw people getting up. Now my point of this story is I let that go, but one day said and george, you'd have the same curiosity the booking sheet said Birth of a Notion.
George Feltenstein:Wow, that was a classic Robert McKimpson great Daffy Duck card and one of the shorts that's on disc two.
Jerry Beck:That's why I'm mentioning this and so I said wait a minute. At that time it was only whatever crappy print was running on Channel 5. We didn't even have home video yet. So I said they're running a 35, a birth of a notion. This was like I have to go and see it.
Jerry Beck:I can't believe it. I admit it. I admit it, I went to a porno theater. I got to write this as an article to see a looney tune, you know. And uh, I did. I went there and it was a beautiful 25 millimeter tech print and it was tech, I could tell you, and I was like I, I, I never forgot that experience. Um, my reason for even bringing all that up is that it's on this set and it's's, of course, restored from the original camera. Neg, it looks like. I have never seen it look like this. It is, as we've said, as I'm boring everybody with the fact that, yes, again, crystal clear. I've seen that cartoon a million times in my life and in many, many ways, but it never looked this good. It's amazing, and you know, that's all I have to say about that my experience with Birth of an Ocean. There you go.
Tim Millard:That's a great story, Jerry. It's a great story.
Jerry Beck:I agree, not what I was expecting today.
Tim Millard:I cleaned it up a little bit, but yeah well, before we jump to uh to this too, I did want to mention a couple others that I I just don't want to not talk about, and that's uh, first off, the dixie fryer from 1960. I just thought this is a terrific uh cartoon, um, and beautiful animation voicing storyline. What are your guys' thoughts on that one?
George Feltenstein:Very highly requested by the fans.
Jerry Beck:Yeah, that's one of those. Pappy and Elvis right, the two pros.
Jerry Beck:And whatever they are, and I'm always amazed. People love, I have to admit, more than I, but I love Foghorn Leghorn cartoons. They're all great. They're not all the same. There's some great one-liners in all of them. There's some great situations. Another one that's on here that I'm nutty about and it's a really late one is Banty Raids. We'll talk about that, but everybody's got a favorite on those and people really really want them, you know, and so my feeling is you know I have no. I'm just surprised when I hear people ask for specific ones. That means something to them. I'm not sure what that means. A lot of people tell me that Foghorn reminds them of their dad and or my dad loved these cartoons and it was a bonding moment for a lot of people. That's something I've learned throughout the years. My dad didn't really care about Foghorn Leghorn, but he's a great guy and we'll leave it at that. But yeah, I mean, we live to serve, right. We want to give people what they want.
Tim Millard:Well, I guess I could see why people enjoy it. I just thought it's got so much humor. Yeah, it's got great gags.
Jerry Beck:Yeah, that's one of those later ones and I believe the two characters, or at least one of them, is, uh, dawes butler and I'm not sure he gets. I don't think he gets credit, but he's a very famous voice in a lot of hannah barbara cartoons and whatever and he's one of the voices that really enhances that cartoon as well well, a couple others that I just uh, I'm just saying I had as kind of personal favorites or I thought they were noteworthy.
Tim Millard:I'd love to take orders from you from 1936. That's a Tex Avery, where the kid scarecrow wants to be like his father. I thought that's a charming one and it looks terrific.
George Feltenstein:It is, and that is representative of what the Looney Tunes and Mary Melodies initially were set out to do, of what the Looney Tunes and Merry Melodies initially were set out to do. I'd Love to Take Orders from you is a song that was written for a Warner Brothers film of the era, and the cartoons were initially designed hence Looney Tunes, merry Melodies to promote songs either written for Warner Brothers films and or songs that were published by Warner Brothers Music Publishing Companies, which are unfortunately no longer part of our company, but that was the initial purpose. They'd say, okay, you got to make a cartoon about September in the Rain, you got to make a cartoon about Shuffle Up the Buffalo. And they do it and they do a great job and I'd love to take orders from you is a beautifully drawn, gorgeous restoration and it's just never seen it look that good.
Jerry Beck:Yes, anytime anybody mentions the 30s cartoons, any of the 30s cartoons, I those looked those always in the past looked worse than the 40s cartoons you know they just looked worse and you see them in 35.
Jerry Beck:When you see them restored it clicks in my head a little bit more about how these cartoons were able to be on the same par with, dare I say, disney. Disney was doing a whole other world of what he was doing. But to you know, how would the other cartoons? You know how? Did they even think they were in the same world as Disney? But they didn't. But when you see them restored you get a better idea of oh okay, these look great, they're better than I thought. I could see why people loved them, enjoyed them almost equally with the disneys yeah, another, another one from the 30s that I.
Tim Millard:I felt the the same way in terms of how good it looked and everything is that one from 1936? Let it be me.
Jerry Beck:Me yeah.
Tim Millard:And that has the rooster, the singing rooster, the crooner, and I guess that's maybe Bing Crosby or you know it's.
George Feltenstein:That was the idea yeah.
Jerry Beck:Bing Crosby was the big thing. A thing about those particular ones that we've been talking about Let it Be Me, and I Love to Take Orders from that era was these were the earliest ones that Warners used technicolor for, and they were purposely making them as colorful as they could, something I did not realize watching the faded prints that we all grew up with.
Tim Millard:These cartoons are more colorful than we ever knew and, uh, you know again, we're seeing them the way they're meant to be seen well, there uh was another one that I wanted to ask you about, and that's a kitty's kitty from 1955 and that has that uh sadistic little girl who torments sylvester. But I was laughing my head off uh watching this. What are your guys' thoughts on that one?
Jerry Beck:I like them. I mean, in my life, in all of the years I've been involved in decades, I've come to appreciate Frizz Freeling more than I think I ever did, way back when. Oh my God, he was great. I'm so happy I got to meet him. I got to interview him a few times and I'm constantly marveling at a lot of the cartoons that I thought were maybe not so hot, and I'm looking at them again and I'm thinking this is just, he was great, even into the 60s with the Pink Panther, with the earliest of those. He really knew what he was doing. I'm beginning to wonder, dare I say it this way, not that he was watching them, but I'm beginning to wonder what Walt Disney might have thought of Frizz Freelinks cartoons, because he won Oscars. And the reason I say that is most people don't know that Frizz was from Kansas City and worked for Walt Disney thereney there, that's right him out to work on the alice and oswald cartoons.
Jerry Beck:Here he, freeling, and uh, disney had some kind of a falling out, uh, to put it mildly, and freeling went and stuck with harmonizing for sinking in the bathtub and onward. You know the entirety of warners and, and so Frizz Freeling's name was not unknown to Walt Disney. And to see him get Oscars in the future like Birds, anonymous and this and that, I kind of wonder about that. But Kitty's Kitty is a great little cartoon. It has a bit of the UPA, you know, uh, stylized backgrounds in it, even the design of the little girl, um, and it's just pure comedy, it's pure timing, it's funny, I don't even know what else to say, even though it was a little girl.
Jerry Beck:And it's got Sylvester in it again. It was made for all audiences and this is a good film. That really demonstrates that. Because the, the gags are kind of sadistic, you know any pet owner or hater maybe, you know, would really really laugh at the things that happened to Sylvester in this cartoon. It's, it's, it's very well put together, very well designed and you know it's not the little girl, she's like kind of the.
Jerry Beck:Our sympathies are with sylvester in this course you know, you know, so it's uh you know.
Tim Millard:I'll add in as a parent of a daughter too, would you? They just just the way kids, little girls, want their animals, they love their animals. But at times you're like, oh, no, stop, yeah, because they can be so unintentionally mean to them. But it's uh, I just uh. I just found that one very, very funny, um, and then another one that I wanted to ask you about because I thought it looks fantastic and it was. It's so different, but I really enjoyed it and that was good night. Elmer from 1940. I mean, it's just elmer, fudd with this candle yeah, yeah, it's, it's, it's.
Jerry Beck:it's one I always had a problem with because, uh, with, uh, some very, very rare exceptions, I'd have to rack my brain to remind myself there's hardly anything cartoony in it. The animation is very intricate, it's very real-ish and it's dark, literally because it's at night, and I always felt that that's a film that could have been done in live action. It might have made a great Edgar Kennedy short or something. But seeing it finally restored know, restored it's beautiful. The animation is beautiful. It's not rotoscoped I didn't think it was, but it's. It all takes place with this human character, so why wouldn't it be? Maybe, but it's beautifully done. The shading this is early chuck jones, before he was, before he was lectured by Leon to follow what Avery and Clampett are doing. We want funny cartoons, and not that this wasn't funny, but it's Disney-ish, really is what it is. It's the frustrations of a character against an object that he has no control over, and it's really a study. It's that he has no control over, and it's it's. It's really a study, it's really really animated.
Tim Millard:Yeah, yeah, but it's very different than the others for that, for that reason, and it calls attention to itself for that reason, but I, I really enjoyed it. I thought it was a really, really interesting. And then you have a couple others that I thought were notable, because I think they're the the first um debuts of uh, like the goofy gophers yes, right yeah, and the work yeah, go on in the squawk and hawk, I think as well is that the first?
Jerry Beck:uh, henry hawk? Right, I believe so yeah, I just thought those were notable for those reasons for obviously fans of those you also have the first daffy duck cartoon on the other uh, I think on the other second disc, um, and so we have like a a bunch of firsts yeah which I think are very.
Tim Millard:In fact, I think we have the first speedy gonzalez on here, j, before you jump to that is that this is like you know. We've called it alternately. Disc one here is alternately called Collectors, Volume 5. But the fact that these firsts are only now coming out, I thought was really noticeable, because you would think like the firsts would be released maybe a little bit earlier in the process. I don't know, it's just a thought.
Jerry Beck:Well, the first aren't are, strangely enough, not usually. Sometimes they are, but not usually their best. The best Cause they refine the characters. If that, if this character got a good reaction, hey, let's make another, let's make it. That's, this is what they did back then. That's how Bugs Bunny came to be. He didn't just emerge in one cartoon, it was several cartoons where all the directors had a say and could make different variants until they got to the wild hair, the primo True, but everybody wants to see first.
Tim Millard:Oh yeah first oh yeah, first, you know the the fact that I have a best, even now collectors are like, oh my gosh, I get to see the first of something this late into the series. I think is fantastic because, whether you know, we're not everybody's watching these ranking. You know, they just want to know this was the first attempt, or the first time this character came. That's an interesting thing. Yeah, george, I know you like.
George Feltenstein:You like these goofy there was a time where people just watched them for entertainment and not scrutiny and analysis. Everything else that you know has been added to the equation.
Jerry Beck:They're entertainment, can you? Imagine can you imagine this will be a scene in some movie where some time traveler goes back to 1945 and a person coming out of the theater and he says did you just see the cartoon inside, sir? He goes yes, it was a cartoon, I was watching the Clark Gable picture and he goes. Well, do you know that in the future people will be obsessing over that particular cartoon and all the subsequent ones and they'd look at that person from the future as crazy?
George Feltenstein:Well, some people today look at it as crazy and we're the ones that have to fight that battle to get them is expanding and growing and I'm hoping that will continue yeah.
Tim Millard:Yeah, sure. Well, this is the end of part one of a multiple episode of this Looney Tunes Collectors Vault Volume 1 discussion. You can look for the next episode coming soon, but until then, if you want to learn a little bit more or see previews of the release, we have some first looks on our youtube channel and on facebook so you can look for those there. I'll provide some links to that in the podcast show notes, as well as a link to the actual release if you'd like to purchase it. This is a fantastic release, highly recommended, as you can tell. So look for the next episode very soon. Until then, if you haven't yet, please subscribe or follow the show. That way you'll get information on the next episode and all of our animation release episodes with Jerry and George as soon as they come out. Until next time you've been listening to Tim Millard. Stay slightly obsessed about animation.