Celebrate a century of cinematic splendor with us as film historian Steven C. Smith and fashion expert Kimberly Truhler peel back the curtain on Columbia Pictures' illustrious history. From Harry Cohn's strategic cunning to the studio's transformation under the guiding hand of Frank Capra, this episode promises a treasure trove of insider knowledge. We'll reflect on the indelible mark left by "His Girl Friday"—a film that continues to sparkle with wit and wisdom 84 years after its debut. With Steven and Kimberly's expertise, we'll also discover the crucial role of fashion in film, celebrating Robert Kalloch's contributions to some of the era's most iconic looks.
Steven C. Smith website
Kimberly Truhler GlamAmore website
Amazon purchase links:
Columbia Classics 4K Ultra HD Collection Volume 4
Film Noir Style: The Killer 1940s book
Music by Max Steiner: The Epic Life of Hollywood's Most Influential Composer Book
A Heart at Fire's Center: The Life and Music of Bernard Herrmann Book
The Extras Facebook page
The Extras Twitter
Warner Archive & Warner Bros Catalog Group
Otaku Media produces podcasts, behind-the-scenes extras, and media that connect creatives with their fans and businesses with their consumers. Contact us today to see how we can work together to achieve your goals. www.otakumedia.tv
Celebrate a century of cinematic splendor with us as film historian Steven C. Smith and fashion expert Kimberly Truhler peel back the curtain on Columbia Pictures' illustrious history. From Harry Cohn's strategic cunning to the studio's transformation under the guiding hand of Frank Capra, this episode promises a treasure trove of insider knowledge. We'll reflect on the indelible mark left by "His Girl Friday"—a film that continues to sparkle with wit and wisdom 84 years after its debut. With Steven and Kimberly's expertise, we'll also discover the crucial role of fashion in film, celebrating Robert Kalloch's contributions to some of the era's most iconic looks.
Steven C. Smith website
Kimberly Truhler GlamAmore website
Amazon purchase links:
Columbia Classics 4K Ultra HD Collection Volume 4
Film Noir Style: The Killer 1940s book
Music by Max Steiner: The Epic Life of Hollywood's Most Influential Composer Book
A Heart at Fire's Center: The Life and Music of Bernard Herrmann Book
The Extras Facebook page
The Extras Twitter
Warner Archive & Warner Bros Catalog Group
Otaku Media produces podcasts, behind-the-scenes extras, and media that connect creatives with their fans and businesses with their consumers. Contact us today to see how we can work together to achieve your goals. www.otakumedia.tv
Hello and welcome to the Extras, where we take you behind the scenes of your favorite TV shows, movies and animation and then release on digital DVD, blu-ray and 4K or your favorite streaming site. I'm Tim, a larger host, and joining me today are two very special guests to talk about the 100th anniversary of Columbia Pictures and, more specifically, the 1940 comedy classic, his Girl Friday. Steven C Smith is an author and producer of hundreds of documentaries and extras and a good friend that I had the privilege to work with during my time at Warner Home Entertainment. He was previously on the podcast to discuss his award-winning book Music by Max Diner, which I highly recommend for film and film music enthusiasts. You may have seen film fashion historian Kimberly Truller on TCM or at one of the many appearances she has made as a lecturer and film historian. She is also the author of film noir style, the Killer 1940s and the creative force behind Glam Amore, which was founded to celebrate the history of fashion and film. Well, steven, it's great to have you back on the podcast. It's been a while.
Speaker 2:Pleasure.
Speaker 1:And Kimberly, it's a pleasure to finally meet you as well.
Speaker 3:Nice to meet you too.
Speaker 1:I think it was just kind of serendipitous, but today actually happens to be the anniversary of the release date of his Girl, friday 84 years ago and when we picked this time to record didn't necessarily do that on purpose, but that's kind of fun. Now, when this podcast releases, we'll be beyond it. But I'm looking forward to talking to the two of you about this 100th anniversary of Columbia Pictures, so I thought we could get into that first, because that's really a huge part of the background of our discussion today. So, steven, I know you're both film historians, but maybe you could take the lead here and take us into a little bit of the early history of Columbia Pictures.
Speaker 2:Absolutely and Kimberly. Feel free to chime in anytime you like. Yes, columbia turns 100 this year. It's actually a little older if you count its very first name, because back in 1918, harry Cohn, his brother Jack and their friend Joe Brandt formed CBC. There are three names and that was the name of the company for six years, but because it was such a small operation, once people started calling it corned beef and cabbage CBC, they decided to go for a more elegant name and they chose a very good one Columbia in 1924. So, yes, 100 years ago, that fledgling operation became Columbia and they went through some various figures of ladies holding shields and then ultimately, of course, the Columbia torch. That has continued to evolve through the years, because now Columbia is part of Sony.
Speaker 2:So that's the early history, and the person who was really behind the studio, who ran it, who was the production chief, was the legendary Harry Cohn, one of the most colorful moguls, let's say, and that's saying a lot.
Speaker 2:He was a savvy man and the fact that he could be so explosively angry and then, in moments, turn on charm suggests to me that he was a very good actor, that he knew how to intimidate people, and when people stood up to him, he backed off and he could be very charming.
Speaker 2:In the same conversation, when I was writing my biography of Max Steiner, he had a very funny story about Harry Cohn, who was blowing his top in 1937 over the scoring of Lost Horizon, the Frank Capra epic. That was the most expensive film Columbia had made at that time, I believe. And when Cohn walked in and saw roughly 100 musicians and choral singers at the scoring session the next morning, he demanded that Capra and Max Steiner, who was the musical director, and anyone involved get in his office. And he was yelling and yelling and then, according to the composer, max Steiner, cohn suddenly lunged from behind his desk and ran towards him and Max was terrified and he ran out the door and Cohn grabbed him and he said Max, what is the name of that gorgeous cellist that was sitting three rows back?
Speaker 3:That's all right.
Speaker 2:That tells you all. Maybe I can really need to say about Harry Cohn to start this.
Speaker 1:And I think I read a little bit in my research about Harry Cohn that even though he was at one of the smaller studios obviously at the time he endured beyond pretty much everybody other than maybe with the exception of one of the Warner Brothers there. But he had the longest reigned, so to speak, in terms of actual years as head of a studio.
Speaker 2:From 1918 to February of 1958 when he died. No doubt he would have gone on and on, because he was still very much running the show at that time, seeing it into the new age of television. Just the start of that.
Speaker 1:Because it was not because they didn't own theaters. That was part of the reason why they were also one of the smaller ones. Is that right?
Speaker 2:Yes, it was like Universal in that it didn't own theaters. And during the 30s and most of the 40s it was very advantageous for the studios to own their own theaters because they had a great place to program there, as we would call it now content. But ultimately, ultimately, columbia and Universal you know who are, both of which are still around it was to their advantage that they didn't own theaters after 1948, when there was a government ruling that studios could not own those chains of theaters. So that's why Columbia and Universal if any you know just continued to grow during that period and there was a considerable period of adjustment for studios like MGM.
Speaker 3:Well, and I mean, wasn't some of Harry's strategy in the early days that he didn't own much versus Paramount? You know, had this huge studio MGM and this huge studio where they had they own cameras. You know, it's like Columbia was renting everything for about as long as he could do it.
Speaker 2:Including actors.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, this is not a studio that was built up with a star system, so you're using the star system like a Warner Brothers or MGM. They did, almost accidentally, have a few stars who began under contract, like Rita Hayworth and Gene Arthur, but Harry Cohn preferred to have Carrie Grant, say, or Catherine Hepburn, come in for a film to do their big prestige title of the year, and that worked out very well for him and Kimberly, I would say for us, wouldn't you?
Speaker 3:I would, and he had Stanwyck and Capra early on. So I mean, if you're going to have someone, have Barbara Stanwyck, that's not too shabby.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think one of the featurettes that we'll be talking about, steven, when I was watching it I think you kind of got into some of the importance of a few of the films that kind of took Columbia and started to, I guess what give it a prestige a little bit more than it had, at least before. So maybe you could take us into some of what was maybe one of the early films that kind of bumped it up in status and who was the director?
Speaker 2:Well, there, was definitely one in 1934 that changed everything. And because I know Kimberly knows a great deal about this, kimberly, would you like to take it from there?
Speaker 3:Well, I mean, it happened one night. It came out in 1934. And it just blew everyone away. I'm sure it shocked everybody. Probably Herring Cohn most of all, definitely Clark Gable, who won an Oscar for Best Actor. He was an MGM contract player who had been loaned to Columbia as punishment for his bad behavior. Claudette Colbert had to be wrangled into her part in. She was a Paramount player. She won an Oscar and it yanked her from a train station to accept the Oscar. So everyone was pretty shocked when it swept the main categories at the Academy Awards. So that was definitely a pivot point in Columbia's history and of course I would argue that one of the reasons that it had a pivot in its reputation was because they hired costume designer Robert Kellogg as well.
Speaker 1:And Stephen, who's the director on that film. Do you remember?
Speaker 2:Oh, I remember it was a gentleman named Frank Capra who had been working in Columbia for a number of years, made some very good films already, like Lady for a Day, american Madness, but it was really a happen one night that, as Kimberly told us, absolutely astonished everyone and it really still is. It sets the bar, I think, for romantic comedy. I recently had a screening of it here where I live in. Rancho Mirage, introduced it and spoke about it and it was a packed house and people just cheered at the end.
Speaker 2:It's fortunate in that, although it evokes the depression that it's in, it's about two people who fall in love on a night bus traveling across the country during the depression. It has very much a timelessness about it and the chemistry between Gable and Colbert is so strong and the script by Robert Riskin is just superb and Capra knew how to get people who, as Kimberly mentioned, didn't necessarily want to be there and make them feel loose and comfortable. And it's one of those great stories where, even though Colbert had apparently no faith in the project all the way to Oscar night, she couldn't be more charming. I think it's her best film. So that showed that Harry Cohn's mission of the last two years of getting Robert Callican to do these glamorous costumes for stars to support Capra and Robert Riskin, basically to make one or two major quality films a year and then more kind of bread and butter pictures. That became a template that was successful for a long time.
Speaker 1:And do you know how he got Capra in there? I mean, was Capra just a young director that was kind of unknown?
Speaker 2:Well, he wasn't quite unknown, but he came out of slapstick comedy. That's the wonderful thing I think he had worked for, didn't he work Kimberly? For Max Senate, and he directed Harry Langdon, the silent comedian, in his last Good Silent Features. And then he went over to Columbia and he, capra, was very, very hungry, very ambitious to succeed and he gave Columbia many of its biggest titles of the 1930s, not necessarily in this order, but Mr Smith Goes to Washington, lost Horizon, mr Deeds Goes to Town the best picture winning. You can't take it with you.
Speaker 2:Capra really had kind of. He had the golden touch for quite a while there and although he sparred with Harry Cohn considerably who didn't and I think out of that occasional conflict came good things Cohn. For all that said about him, he supposedly was incredibly vulgar and really extreme, but he had good taste, I think, when it came to good films. I mean, in the 1940s he continued to make quality productions. He teamed Fred Astaire and Rita Hayworth in two films that were very successful. He made All the King's Men, another best picture winner, and From here to Eternity, another best picture winner, for which I did about an hour's worth of special features recently.
Speaker 1:I want to go back a little bit to the fashion design, Kimberly, because that's obviously an area that you know so much about. Can you talk about how Caliq did make that transition and help the studio kind of appeal to the actors and actresses?
Speaker 3:Well, first, for any costume designers that might be listening, I want to make a statement about. There is a difference between fashion design and costume design. They should not be conflated with one another. Costumes are created for characters, to be a part of the support, the story, to show the character arc. The reason why I often weave fashion into the stories of the costume designers because so many of them came from the fashion industry, and Bobby Kellogg is one of these people. In fact, he was internationally renowned as a fashion designer before he came to Columbia. He worked at the best couturiers in the world, lucille being one of them. Lucille also produced Howard Greer, travis Banton and Vera West had an association with Lady Def Gordon, who ran the Lucille couturier. So these are all the head costume designers of MGM Columbia and Universal. So you know the quality of the workmanship there. And then also Madame Francis, a couturier in New York City, as well as Hattie Carnegie, who was internationally known, based out of New York City. So Kellogg had an international reputation. If you were royalty, the social elite, actresses, broadway stars, if you were anyone who was, anyone who had money, you were probably wearing Kellogg long before he came to Columbia, and one of his clients was Harry Cohen's wife, rose, and so that is how Kellogg got on Harry Cohen's radar and Stephen alluded to Harry's colorful character and background, which pretty much everybody's got a Harry Cohen story for better or for worse. But I give him a tremendous amount of credit for bringing Kellogg to the studio. He saw that so much of MGM and Paramount in particular their reputations were coming from the glamour of the costume design.
Speaker 3:Cecil B DeMille very early on created fashion films his words with Gloria Swanson and proved out that these were money makers and if anyone valued making money it was Harry Cohen. So it was a win-win. You know, he got a lift and reputation for the studio as a whole. All of a sudden even B pictures just looked so much better because Kellogg was designing for them. But also people went to these movies to see these stars in costumes and you had stars who were loaned to Columbia. Jean Arthur was loaned to Columbia for a couple of pictures before she went to MGM. Carol Lombard was loaned to Columbia while she was at Paramount to kind of get her experience going and she was someone who got along really well with Harry Cohen, likely because she was such a tough lady and could go ahead to head with him. So people went to these films to see these stars in these incredible costumes. So even if they were lacking in script and story, the stars and the look of them helped bring people in. So that was. He started with Columbia in 1932.
Speaker 1:What was his first film with Columbia?
Speaker 3:Well, in 1932, he did. He worked with Barbara Stanwyck who again she was one of like if you could call her a contract player in Columbia, like she was one of its early stars. So the bitter tea of General Yen was one of his first pictures at Columbia, yeah, which I mean, has just jaw-dropping costumes in that one. And then, two years later he had it happen one night, and it happened one night is one of the most iconic films from a standpoint of its costume design, both for Clark and for Claudette Colbert. They continue to live on in the fashion industry today. It is a point of inspiration for modern fashion designers.
Speaker 1:And I have to say that, steven, thank you for letting me see the feature at a little bit earlier here, before it's released as part of Columbia's classics volume four. But I heard that story of it happened one night and everything, and that kind of then took us right into the film that we're going to talk about, which I believe was what, just a year or so later, yes, his Girl Friday.
Speaker 2:That actually was filmed in 1939, released in 1940.
Speaker 2:So a little time Not an enormous one, and in between, cali continued to do good work. But yes, it's interesting. His Girl Friday is part of the next Columbia classics set, as you mentioned, which will also include titles like Kramer vs Kramer, sleepless in Seattle. There are a lot of gorgeous new transfers on this and special features. But it's interesting and this is something again that Kimberly can speak too far more than I. But in the case of his Girl Friday, we're almost talking about a single wardrobe and yet with that single wardrobe, cali makes his Girl Friday one of the most important costume design films of its time. Would you agree, kimberly?
Speaker 3:100%. You know what's interesting about both it Happened One Night and His Girl Friday is that the bulk of the picture rests on a single costume. Now it Happened One Night had more costumes in it, more of a variety of costumes, but his Girl Friday essentially has two through the whole picture, and one of the things that I credit Kellogg with is his gift at layering. So her opening costume is that dramatic striped coat and matching hat, which are pink and black, as I talk about in the feature ad. But as the scenes go on she takes her coat off. Now she's got a blouse and skirt on. So it's a difference, same costume but a slightly different look. Similarly, in it Happened One Night, sometimes she puts Clark Gables sweater around her shoulder, sometimes she's got her little hat on. So he finds ways to make a single costume visually interesting for the audience. And then, of course, in His Girl Friday it is that striped suit, that skirt suit that she wears when she's working, she's in action.
Speaker 3:That is Hildi, that is her persona, and partial credit to that costume goes to the director, howard Hawks, who, if you look at the history of the strong women in his pictures, so if you think of Tabernam, not the big sleep. Even Gene Arthur in Only Angels have Wings, he loves women in checked suits you know the Gangham suit, hounstooth checked suits or striped suits and so his direction to Rosalyn Russell when she started the picture is go to wardrobe and get yourself a smart look and striped suit. And so that was the direction that Kellogg had in creating that. And what's fascinating to me, knowing fashion history now I am talking about fashion is that that striped suit was essentially signature 1940s style that Kellogg was defining in 1939. And further, speaking as a career woman, everyone I know through the decades has had a navy pinstriped skirt suit in her wardrobe. It's just like this classic basic that everybody has, and Kellogg came up with it in 1939. It's just incredible.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was looking at a poster of the film and after I had heard you talk about the fact that the colors obviously it's a black and white film, but that the colors of the suit were pink and black and that that had some real meaning, because there is what one other wardrobe change where she's then in the with the reporters later. Do we have that right? Yeah, yeah. And so then I'm looking at a poster of his girl Friday and she's in a yellow dress.
Speaker 2:Exactly.
Speaker 1:Wait a second. Why did they put her in a solid yellow dress in this poster when I know from from listening to your story that there was so much power in that outfit? Now, obviously it's probably because maybe they did before they even had the word. I don't know, but even in the publicity stills they don't have her in that outfit. They have her in like in a solid black many of the publicity stills not the stills from the film.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 3:From some other publicity stills Well, I can guess why that decision was made. The studio had certainly didn't like their their women in pants and they didn't like their women in anything that looked to men's wear. And so if you're going to promote a picture, you're going to make her look her most feminine. And Rosalyn Russell, through the 30s, had already established herself as quite a little glamour girl, and she was on the heels of the women where she was in the most outrageous adrienne designs in the world. So the studio has thought to lure people into the studios, you had to put her in the most feminine ensemble you can think of.
Speaker 3:And again, his girlfriend. He's got two outfits. Neither one of them are revealing or overtly feminine. So they were likely trying to tap into, you know, rosalyn Russell looking this way and being glamorous, and did a little bit of a bait and switch, at least in in their minds. Then it became like, wow, she's incredible and that wardrobe is so for you know. So the storyline completely changed with publicity after it came out. But I can guess that that's the reason why originally it was like that.
Speaker 2:And I think you're right, kimberly, because this is something the studios all did across the board. They would choose costumes that often had nothing to do with the film but, as she said, position them to be either more masculine looking, more feminine looking. And one thing they also did pretty consistently was period films like this is a different studio entirely, but for the Ghost and Mrs Muir, a 1940s film set in the turn of the century 19th to 20th, all the costumes that the people are depicted in contemporary clothes, as in most of the posters and such that I've seen, they seem to feel that people, some people, would be discouraged if it was a period film. So you get these kind of incongruously modern looks to movies that we now think of instantly as taking place in another time, or, if it's a Christmas movie, they hide that it's a Christmas movie. And also the darkness of her costume, which breathes so well in the film, probably wouldn't pop as much on a poster, so they went for that yellow, you know, to really just be bright.
Speaker 1:Well, and I think too, what you just said I mean when you watch his Girl Friday it's about this woman who is being pulled by two worlds. Right, she's got the career world and then the home, the family, and that's really let me jump in there, because she's creating that pull.
Speaker 3:She's trying to tell herself get out of this. You want to wife. You don't want to be 24, seven with your ex-husband, with a bunch of guys all the time. You want to be more feminine, hence why that first costume is. You know, it's got pink in it, which I'm sure is not a color that Hildy Johnson normally was wearing. Still got stripes though. So it's like it's her tiptoeing into that feminine role. She's trying to will herself to marry a normal guy, a nice guy, but she gets pulled. I mean, it's Kerry Grant. So who cares what Kerry Grant acts like? But it's like she's trying to get out of that other world and so it's her push ball.
Speaker 1:Right, it's hers, but that's still there, right.
Speaker 3:Yes, 100%.
Speaker 1:And it's like maybe was there some fear that she was. It was, she was too career minded for the publicity, to your point. So they, they tone that down, which is a bummer, because the reason why I think that film is enduring obviously the acting is fantastic, the script is fantastic, but the theme still resonates.
Speaker 3:Oh my.
Speaker 1:God, my wife has a full career and she still struggles with the exact same thing.
Speaker 3:Amen, hallelujah. I wrote about his girl Friday during. I'm not even going to say who was running for president, but it was a contentious election where we thought it was going to be the other person who was female, and so I was writing about it and saying the sad thing is we are still fighting for equal rights, equal pay, equal, equal everything. And what's so inspiring about this movie is we all know Hildi is better than everyone. She's a better writer, she's a better reporter, she's a better person than everyone who's on this screen and so like. That's why it is such a powerful movie, especially for women to return to, because it's like, oh yes, that's someone who is aspirational, right there.
Speaker 2:And may I just jump in to say it's also unusual in hollywood films at the time, because usually when there was a film about a strong woman, whether it was, there was a, a movie with ruth chatter to that one, brothers made 30s old female where she's the boss of a entire industry. She's like the hour hues is running the company and she's the woman and all the employees are men serving her. But at the end of the movie and then two years after, his girlfriend tracy and kathryn hebron appear in woman of the year and they reshot the ending. So it would be exactly it, but only it's. I guess I just I don't belong in this world. I'm really a woman, I need to be a wife. So that was usually what happened in films was that if there was a career woman, she had to ultimately accept the fact that it wasn't right for her. This movie does not do that and I love that's one of the reasons I think it holds up so beautifully.
Speaker 3:Right and when I wrote about it to. If you look at how many women were professionals at that time, it's a very low, it's a single digit percentage of women. So it made it even more Exceptional that it came out in 1940 because of course it's before world war two word I mean eventually. Thirty six percent of the workforce during world war two is women. But as we cruise into the 1940s it was very low and to have a job of her caliber, most women were in domestic service, if they had a job, teachers, that kind of thing. So it really is spectacular and I'm sure that was uncomfortable. I mean, god bless howard hawks for having healthy be a woman, because of course it's based on the front page which had two male leads. But howard hawks, who loves strong woman, saw that there was an opportunity there to have healthy be a woman in this picture exactly in the original play it's hilda brand and the genius choice was made to make that hildegard.
Speaker 2:And I just want to say parenthetically, as you know, tim, there's also a feature at that I produced with the wonderful jeremy arnold, author of many books for tcm, and jeremy talks about how Hawks time the film so there could be the dialogue to be so fast and furious that when it overlapped they insured that extra words were added at the very end of the sentence so that you didn't miss the important information that the genius sound man could switch between multiple mics so quickly. And that's another reason I think that the film is never gone out of style probably never will, is it just has this incredible Force that starts from the first shot of the film, this tracking shot of hildy walking in and just carries you through it to the very end, like this breathless you know E-ticket adventure in pacing also very contemporary and feeling that the tv series moonlighting that's come back to us after years and it's finally available to stream, use his girl friday very much as the template for the relationship in that between bruce willis and civil shepherd.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that was a fascinating feature at home and also highly recommended as part of this new release. Add that just points to the brilliance of the direction, right how it talks. But you also, I think, talk about in there just the challenge that was for the sound design team to do that. And then, to your point, make sure that the dialogue they had what multiple microphones to try to capture everybody in the larger group ones and everything.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, and the cinematographer said that. You know it was a very challenging production because even the movies are traditionally blocked. People don't think about this watching it. Hopefully they don't. But you know, actors walk to certain marks on the floor so they stay in focus and the focus puller on the camera is constantly working to keep them in focus. This was a movie where apparently, both karry grand and rosslyn russell had more latitude than usual to move around, so the cameraman really had to keep up with them on this film and I think that when everyone is on their toes in this way the sound team, this camera team, everyone and it's this incredible rhythm. It's just an exceptional piece of direction and writing.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I re rewatched it and then I was reminded of the broance of it and I Wanted to watch it again. That sounds funny. I literally wanted to watch it again because I'm like I missed half that banter. I mean, I didn't miss it, but I want to hear it again. I want to like. And other thing I I found myself kimberley is anytime the guard is in the scene. My eyes can't because of that outfit. My eyes can't go anywhere else, even when karry grant is standing right next to her and usually your eye goes to karry I just found myself always looking at her. That's the power of that outfit.
Speaker 3:And the power of her. Let's give rosslyn russell some credit now, considering that she was far from the first choice. You know, I mean they are trying to pair Carry with previous co-stars like gene arthur and I read done, and then they went through ginger and kathryn and I mean basically any star of the nineteen thirties before they hit rosslyn russell, which ross found out about by reading it in the paper. So she's not using into this production with a lot of confidence and confronted talks about it. And that's when he said go down to order a bit, get yourself that suit, and she just Becomes healthy.
Speaker 3:And the reason you can't take your eyes off her is because she so is in, to use modern terminology, in her power In the movie. Like she, she doesn't have to. There's no bravado about her. You know she's confident. You know she's confident she's not bragging about. You know you're not getting an indication of her character by her bragging about past things. Carry does talk about assignments that they had been on, but it's not coming from hill day, so that's why she's just so riveting. And we've already talked about the dialogue like two hundred forty words a minute, something ridiculous like that. And so, yeah, that's why you can't take your. What is she gonna do, what is she gonna say? And so that that suit is her armor and that's what it just all works together.
Speaker 1:Now, what about the carry grant outfit, though? How is that purposefully toned down? Or two, how does that work for the men versus the women there?
Speaker 3:No, I don't. I don't think it was toned down. What's interesting about his girl Friday? If we want to talk about Kerry ever so briefly, carry was always, through his career, very involved in his look and in his style evolution and his shooting in the thirties and then in the forties and then in the fifties you know it's like you think of the awful truth thirty shooting, notorious.
Speaker 3:Forty shooting, north by northwest, fifty shooting, all different, and so he was playing with cut and he was playing with the events of the jacket to get into man speak here a little bit. And carry was very conscious of his neck being too thick so he was always working with Taylor's on the collar to make a little higher, to make the sleeves long, everything to lean him out. So what you're seeing in his girl Friday is a great opportunity to see the transition of his style from that thirty shooting, which is more double breasted, a little bit boxier, moving into 1940s, suiting and again like, even though we have a costume designer the caliber of Kellogg Kerry, always very involved with his look in his costumes.
Speaker 2:And if I could just say, one of the great things about seeing these films a film like his Girl Friday and a really excellent high definition transfer is that you can appreciate the details of the wardrobe and you can also really see the interaction between Grant and Russell on a level that you can't in a. And this is a film that went into the public domain, so it looked terrible in most of the releases that people watched for years or on television, and Grant and Russell had a friendly competition going on in this movie. They liked each other tremendously. They were lifelong friends, but just the way actors do, particularly where these two characters are in kind of a struggle with each other.
Speaker 2:There's very little improvisation in the film, but their physical activity is there's a lot of improvisation. There were a few lines that Kerry Grant threw in and with a writer planning, and then Russell and Russell did the same. She got a few lines in her pocket and threw them at him and they were keeping each other on the toes. And as I put together these two new pieces about the film for the 4K release, I never, ever tired of rewatching them, because I could always look at their eyes and also look at the other news, people who are so fabulous. You have a great supporting cast of 30s 40s character actors in this movie and there is so much vitality, but there is real listening going on. This is not the kind of movie where people could check out and then just hear the cue for their next line. Everybody has to listen and you can watch that on the 20th viewing of the movie and still find something fresh in it.
Speaker 3:You're so right. Everyone and the scene stealers of the supporting players, every single one of them is so good, so everyone is doing their A game in his Girl Friday.
Speaker 1:Well, it's such an iconic film and going back to the Columbia 100. This film, among others, I mean the studio is kind of known for their comedy right, their screwball comedy.
Speaker 2:I would say that's true. In the 30s I mean they became known after it happened one night as a studio that reliably produced star-driven romantic comedies. And you could argue that Kerry Grant created his Kerry Grant persona through his films at Columbia, because you get the Awful Truth, which was an Oscar winner in 1937, which some people consider the first Kerry Grant movie in that he's really playing the kind of character we know. And then the next year for Columbia he makes Holiday with Catherine Hepburn In 1939, he makes Only Angels have Wings, a Howard Hawks film with Gene Arthur at Columbia 1940, his Girl Friday at Columbia.
Speaker 2:So really his most formative time and some of his really his greatest performances that period are all in Columbia films. So that was something you know. The audience didn't go to a Columbia film and say, oh, we're going to see a Columbia movie tonight, the way they might in later years say we're going to go see an MGM musical. They generally went for the stars, but Harry Cohn was so shrewd to pay Kerry Grant, not an inexpensive performer to do these films and to make sure that the vehicles were worthy of him. The talk of the town, you know, in the early 40s and you know everybody benefited, including us all, these years later.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I was a little surprised, you know, to hear from your feature ads and everything that history of how many great films Kerry Grant did there at Columbia, yeah, when this studio didn't really have these expensive contract players and so many other good ones, good actors as well. So that was surprising. I really enjoyed it. I mean, I enjoyed the feature ads. Can you kind of give us a little recap of the two that you did for that release, stephen?
Speaker 2:Yes, absolutely. One features the wonderful author Jeremy Arnold in a look at how Hawks created the rapid fire dialogue of the movie, and the other feature ad features Kimberly Truller talking about the great Robert Callak who, as we have discussed, just does not get the attention he deserves.
Speaker 1:And they're part of the 4K remaster. I believe that's a part of the, as we mentioned, the Columbia Classics Collection, volume 4. And it comes out February 20. Oh no, excuse me.
Speaker 2:Just in time for Valentine today. So really the 4K owner in your home. This is the ultimate Valentine's gift. You get punch, drunk love, sleepless in Seattle. Star man Kramer versus Kramer, guess who's coming to dinner? And his Girl Friday with bonus features.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so it's a great release. Obviously, to your point, the version of his Girl Friday that I had to watch is not a 4K, and I'm very much looking forward to the 4K version because it had a lot of dropouts and it had a you know. It just is not up to par. I mean, I've watched it on a streaming service, so I'm looking forward to the 4K because that's going to really help, especially with these, with the costumes that we just talked about.
Speaker 2:It's a different movie and I will say, just for the fun of teasing something, that if you like movies like his Girl Friday, there are more things ahead coming in the year.
Speaker 1:Oh, okay, well, thank you so much for that. I have no idea what that means, because it's so vague. I guess what it means is there's more Columbia stuff coming out for their anniversary, hopefully. Well, before we wrap this up, kimberly, maybe you could let our listeners know how can they follow you or find out a little bit more about you.
Speaker 3:I am known as Glam Amor online, so you can find me at glamamorcom it's my handle on social media. I will often do events primarily in the Los Angeles area. I most recently did a speaking screening series with the American Cinematheque with my book Film Noir Style. So those are the ways to keep in touch with me and informed as what I'm up to and I'm going to be doing an event before the TCM Classic Film Festival this year not at the festival, it's right before it. It's going to be at the Hollywood Heritage Museum and this will be the seventh year that I've done this event. I select six or so movies that the festival will be showing and I share the story of the costume designer discuss the costumes if they're influential and people really enjoy the event.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I'll put the links to your website and some of your other social media on there to make it easy for people to follow you, so that they can know about your events or just read your blogs and watch your appearances on TCM or your videos on YouTube and other things as well. And then, steven, tell us a little bit about what you went up to. Obviously, you were on the podcast over a year ago, I think now to talk about your book, but what else are you up to these days?
Speaker 2:Well, I had the pleasure of introducing and speaking about two films at the Library of Congress recently. One is a film that you and I may talk about later in the year the wonderful All that Money Can Buy. Since we're talking about books, thank you for putting one of mine behind you. That book to the left is Music by Max Steiner, the epic life of Hollywood's most influential composer. I'm also the biographer of Bernard Herrmann, and you can find more about those books at mediastevencom.
Speaker 2:That's Steven with the Vee Media, steven dot com, and I've had the good fortune in the past of producing slightly over 200 television documentaries, most of them about classic Hollywood. I've done at least 100 documentaries for home video on classic films, including some Columbia titles like Oliver and Lawrence of Arabia. So I'm always glad when a studio goes back into its history and gives an opportunity for people like Kimberly and Jeremy Arnold and myself to help not only celebrate them but maybe, you know, illuminate an area they don't know about, like Robert Callick, like how the sound design and scripting of his Girl Friday was done. So that's how you can find me, mediastevencom, and.
Speaker 1:I follow you, steven Obviously we're good friends going way back, way, way way back, but I follow you on Facebook and LinkedIn and a few others, so I'll have those as well in the podcast show notes, and I'm always surprised at what you have going and how much you have going, and I also love your webinars that you do on film history, film noir, all kinds of different things in your knowledge of film history is quite diverse, and so I'll have those links for people who want to follow you and check out some of those things as well. But I did want to ask you are you working another book?
Speaker 2:I am writing another book. It may be related to Alfred Hitchcock. That's all I'm going to say at the moment and I am hoping that people can purchase it in 2025 more soon.
Speaker 1:Okay, well, there's a long lead right there, Because we know writing a book is such a huge process, especially with all the research that you have to do for the type of books you write.
Speaker 2:Yes, I will say there's a lot of information in this one that has not been published before, or I wouldn't do it so yeah, and I do notice, steven, knowing you, that you choose topics where you have to travel to Europe, to England, to do research.
Speaker 1:I mean, it's such a chore, it's so horrible. You know you do it.
Speaker 2:Everybody's got to do it. If Bernardo Herman preferred to live in London, I have to go to London. If Max Steiner came from Vienna, I have to go to Vienna, just for the first of the work I do.
Speaker 1:It's first-hand research. He's got to go and walk in the streets on the cobblestones of these great masters.
Speaker 2:Well, it is amazing. All kidding aside, it is amazing the footprints that they have left there, Because when I wrote my book about Max Steiner, this man passed away in 1971. You wouldn't think that there would be a lot to really find anymore, but because his family, for three generations, had been a major part of the Vienna music scene when Vienna was like the Broadway of Europe. Not only does Vienna have a theater museum, they have like an entire room devoted to the Steiner family. It was incredible. So I felt like it was incredible time travel to do that and that is the fun of doing the kind of featurettes that I got to work with, collaborate with Kimberly and Jeremy on, or books to write is, and certainly watching these films. It's the best kind of time travel you can do.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I've been excited every time I hear about the projects that you're working on, and I will have links to your books. Both of you got your books here in the podcast show notes as well, so that people can dive in even deeper into these topics. So thank you so much for coming on the podcast today.
Speaker 3:Thanks for joining us.
Speaker 1:I hope you enjoyed our conversation today as much as I did. They just don't make movies like his Girl Friday anymore, so I'm looking forward to seeing this new 4K restoration. If you are interested in purchasing the Columbia Classic Volume 4 4K collection that is releasing on February 13th, you can find a link in the podcast show notes or on our website at wwwdxfristv. So be sure and check those out. If you're on social media, be sure and follow the show on Facebook or Twitter at the X-Tris TV or Instagram at the X-Tristv, to stay up to date on our upcoming guests and to be a part of our community and for our long-term listeners. Don't forget to follow and leave us a review at iTunes, spotify or your favorite podcast provider. Until next time you've been listening to Tim Lard, stay slightly obsessed.